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PostSubject: CC - Handgun   Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:29 pm

The guns guns gun post that Jonathan put up made me think of doing the same...

I have a "friend" that hasn't owned a handgun in years.  He would like to get something that he can conceal carry and that will do more than tinkle someone off.  Don't mind if it's a little on the big side so that it's capable of being used (firing range etc) without a lot of headaches.  What do you guys recommend to a virtual noob.  Would love to stay under $500-$600 or even less if possible as I would also like to have a 10/22 as I had seen one other discussion about them and now reading the one mentioned above I think I'm sold.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:24 pm

I'd tell a noob to go to a large gun shop and handle as many as possible to see what they are comfortable with (both firing and carrying). If you have shooter friends ask to tag along on range day or to handle their sidearms elsewhere.

I carry a full size Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm in a Crossbreed IWB holster. It works for me when I where cold weather clothes but I'm very tall and wear clothes on the baggy side. Lots of room for the longer grip & barrel Smile

I'd go 9mm or larger unless you need a pocket pistol with lots of safety features. In that event my wife's S&W Bodyguard .380 has been ok. That one is more of a "fight your way to a bigger gun" kind of tool.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:51 am

Personally I do not suscribe to the "bigger is better" theory of a CC weapon.  Hell I know guys that carry a full size 1911 with two extra mags.  My everyday CC is a Bersa .380.  It is loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.  I have very large hands and this weapon fits well in my hand and I can put ammo down range in consistent groupings.

Bottom line to all of it is that you need to find out what works for you and the only way to determine that is at the range.  No weapon is worth a damn if you can not put ammo down range in consistant groupings.  One well placed shot with a 22 is far better than .45 ammo sprayed all over the place.

Do not get taken in by the Zoombie typs BS.  Odds are that if you ever really need to use your weapon it will be a short experience, not some TV type shootout where you are changing mags in a running gun fight.  If the SHTF I will be ducking for cover first, while drawing my weapon, not standing out in the open firing every shell I have.

My wife carries a Ruger SP101.  This is a .357 five shot revolver.  She has carapal(sp) tunnel in both wrists and can not shoot a semi automatic without it stove piping after a few rounds.  A friend commented about only 5 rounds.  Her response was, "If I can not take out a target with 5 rounds of .357 critical defense I am dead anyway"

You will hear more opinions on this subject than what 4WD is the best off road.  Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:49 pm

Bigger definitely doesn't mean better. But you want the largest caliber that you can effectively shoot on target (while remaining concealable, affordable, etc). I'd never recommend anything smaller than .380 Auto though unless there was no other option.

When it comes to being effective that usually means practicing & shooting so keep that in mind when selecting a caliber. During the last ammo/gun hoarding cycle I had trouble finding 22 and 380 ammo. 5.7x28mm was insanely expensive so I couldn't afford to practice with it. 9mm was really my only option at the time.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:34 pm

Thanks for the info and advice guys.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:05 pm

Paul, I'm preferable to Springfield XDS .45. It's great IMO because it's easily concealed, shoots much better than you'd expect for a small gun like that, and packs enough to kill Smile
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:55 am

I would have to second the Springfield. I know a "guy" that conceal carriers an xdm 4.5 in a Crossbreed IWB holster with no issues. Smith & Wesson M&P is another great option that is a bit cheaper.

Caliber size I have a different take that others on. Bigger may be better if you plan on placing a single well placed shot, but in real life that will not present itself in the case you are defending yourself or a loved one. With that being said "efficiency" is more what I look for. Being able to deliver fast shots accurately and efficiently while manipulating the firearm. I will take 5 well placed 9mm shots in 3 seconds over 1 well placed shot and several "flyers" in the same time with say a .45. More well placed shots have a better chance of shutting down a vital organ and ending the threat than one. Just my thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:26 am

I agree with that statement too, but at the same time, the knock-down power of a .45 vs a 9mm could be more beneficial in the case of an emergency.  That single .45 shot might not be "well" placed because of the circumstances, but I feel that it'd do well putting an attacker on the ground.  Either way, the advancement in ammo tech these days, a 9mm hollow point will still do some massive damage.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:12 pm

DamnItsAGlasgow wrote:
Either way, the advancement in ammo tech these days, a 9mm hollow point will still do some massive damage.
With the little I've read and know I'm see the same thing.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:31 pm

paulwardinc wrote:
DamnItsAGlasgow wrote:
Either way, the advancement in ammo tech these days, a 9mm hollow point will still do some massive damage.
With the little I've read and know I'm see the same thing.

What ammo advancements are you referring to? Generally, I look at it like the car mantra "there is no replacement for displacement". This ASSUMES that you can handle the engine! Wink

I'd agree that regardless of the shot placement the bad guy is probably going to be ineffective after being hit by a 45ACP round. I don't think a 9mm would have the same effect if the bad guy was shot in an extremity. Still, I carry a 9mm (partly) because I am more accurate with it and feel I could get 4 shots on target in the time it took me to get 2 45ACP rounds on target. The only time I really worry about a 9mm not being adequate is when I am in the car or at home, where I would be more likely to shoot through a door, sheetrock, glass, etc. due to a car jacking or home invasion.

I haven't used this site in quite awhile but they tend to post articles on bullet penetration, etc.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

I try to setup my own trials after each new batch of reloads using sheetrock, plywood, plexi/lexan, etc and with 2gal water jugs on the backside. Its good to see just exactly what you can expect out of the ammo that you plan to use.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:38 am

Speaking of shooting once in a situation when your defending your life is voided in my opinion. If the time comes to pull the trigger I would make sure that it justifies lethal force and you shoot to kill the threat, not wound. With that being said I would rather have the efficiency of multiple shots over the caliber size which in some cases makes no difference. A threat is stopped by stopping the blood and oxygen flow to the brain and an artery, heart, or lung will not know that difference between a .45 or 9mm because both would be lethal with little difference. Same would be said with the "electrical" portion of the body. Just my thoughts and not trying to create a pissing contest. Just thought I would clarify why I feel the way I do.
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:56 am

BattBoy wrote:
paulwardinc wrote:
DamnItsAGlasgow wrote:
Either way, the advancement in ammo tech these days, a 9mm hollow point will still do some massive damage.
With the little I've read and know I'm see the same thing.

What ammo advancements are you referring to? Generally, I look at it like the car mantra "there is no replacement for displacement". This ASSUMES that you can handle the engine! Wink

I'd agree that regardless of the shot placement the bad guy is probably going to be ineffective after being hit by a 45ACP round. I don't think a 9mm would have the same effect if the bad guy was shot in an extremity. Still, I carry a 9mm (partly) because I am more accurate with it and feel I could get 4 shots on target in the time it took me to get 2 45ACP rounds on target. The only time I really worry about a 9mm not being adequate is when I am in the car or at home, where I would be more likely to shoot through a door, sheetrock, glass, etc. due to a car jacking or home invasion.

I haven't used this site in quite awhile but they tend to post articles on bullet penetration, etc.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

I try to setup my own trials after each new batch of reloads using sheetrock, plywood, plexi/lexan, etc and with 2gal water jugs on the backside. Its good to see just exactly what you can expect out of the ammo that you plan to use.

I'm saying with the self-defense ammo that you can get this day and age, a 9mm can be much more effective than the simple FMJ's.  That being said, I still prefer to EDC a .45, simply because I can handle that engine lol! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: CC - Handgun   Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:29 pm

I am also a Springfield guy but just got a Smith and Wesson 9mm Shield. It is compact but still a very good handgun. Smart advice earlier about handling as many as possible and firing as many also. This is definitely a personal preference thing.

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